'It's the Payday Lender of the Middle Class' — Dave Ramsey Rips Whole Life Insurance in Heated Call With 35-Year Broker: 'It Just Doesn't Happen, Dude'

Most people call "The Dave Ramsey" Show looking for advice. Some call to vent. And then there's the rare few—like Russ from Salem—who call in ready to challenge the man himself.

Featured in an episode of the show titled "Unforgettable Calls, Volume 2," Russ came in with a different angle. As an insurance broker with 35 years of experience, he wasn't calling for help—he was there to play devil's advocate on one of Ramsey's favorite punching bags: whole life insurance.

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Right out of the gate, Russ pushed back on Ramsey's widely known view that term life insurance is always the best option.

"You have said… term insurance is the best and the only kind of product people should buy in all instances," Russ said, offering a more "situational" perspective.

Ramsey didn't flinch. "There are basic principles of mathematics and basic principles of personal finance that are always the same," he said. "I would tell you there is never a time that you would use a credit card… and I think the same thing's true of whole life."

What followed was a back-and-forth that quickly turned from debate to sparring match—especially when Russ argued that if whole life policies are "written appropriately," the policyholder's beneficiaries can receive not only the face value but the cash value, too.

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Ramsey shut that down quickly.

"That just doesn't happen, dude," he said. "You and I know that. That is not how the industry is set up."

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Russ held his ground, claiming he'd written policies that did pay out both. Ramsey wasn't buying it—and then delivered the line that had listeners reaching for the replay button.

"It is the payday lender of the middle class," he said. "It's a horrid product when you pay 20 times more for the same amount of coverage to build up a cash value that you never receive."

Russ tried to defend the product's use in corporate buy-sell agreements, noting that many major companies and financial professionals use whole life policies to fund business arrangements.

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Ramsey wasn't impressed.

"Because people like you sell that crap to them," he snapped. "That's exactly why they do it."

The call wrapped with both men firmly in their corners—Ramsey warning against what he called "garbage R Us" financial products, and Russ insisting that when structured properly, whole life insurance still has value.

But for longtime Ramsey listeners, it was classic Dave: direct, confrontational, and unshaken by industry pushback.

And for anyone still weighing whether whole life insurance is worth it? Well, Ramsey's take is clear. If you're paying 20 times more for the same coverage, expect him to call it what he believes it is: a bad deal dressed up in a sales pitch.

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