Today our guest is Geoff Gannon, a private investor and proprietor of Gannon on Investing
Hi Geoff, how ya doing?
Good
Good to Hear.Thank you for coming on and talking to us today.I have a number of questions we are hoping to talk about. Can you give us some background on how you got interested in investing, your investment style, your blog, and any other relevant information about you?
I started investing pretty young I was 14. I didn't know what value investing and I started out on balance sheets past earnings things like that. A couple years after I started investing my dad gave me an article about Ben Graham. That got me into reading secure analysis and the intelligent investor and then I became a real value investor after that. Then only 5 or 6 years ago I started writing about investing on my blog Gannon On Investing.
Great Can you tell our listerners about some current investment ideas you find compelling?
Could you give us a brief background on Barnes & Noble. I know that Bill Ackman had a position in that company and isn't that the company that Ukypa group is currently involved in?
That was Pershing Square?
No, Pershing Square was actually in and out of the stock. They are still in Borders but they were in before Berkel. Berkel came after Ackman so Ackman doesn't have any B & N anymore. So Berkel lost the proxy fight last month and their company is up for sale. It is very heavily shorted only about 25% of outstanding shares are freely traded.
Wow. So that could be a tremendous catalyst...
Its up for sale now and there will be some people interested in buying. Riggio winning the proxy fight makes it tougher because I am not sure people think he will let go. By the end of this year we should know if there are any bidders.
Warren Buffett has said he is 85% Ben Graham and 15% Philip Fisher. An argument can be made that he is quite different from Graham. What are the differences in their styles and which do you prefer?
Warren Buffett likes to buy an extraordinary company at an ordinary price and Graham likes to buy an ordinary company at an extraordinary discount and assumes companies in general will have an average future. Graham diversified alot having 100 stocks at a time. Buffett would have 5-10. Except for diversification, I am probably more like Graham. I try to get a really low price rather than a really great business.
Buffett has clearly taken alot from Graham but has tailored it to his own investment style.
Do you think he would be as successful as he has been without altering his investment style and following what he learned from Graham to a tee?
An argument can be made that markets are much more efficient than they were when Grahmam was active and during Buffett's early years. This makes value investing more difficult. Would you say this is true?
Having said that, do you still believe that even in the large cap space that there is enough inefficiency that it is possible to be constantly profitable with value investing?
Could you talk about the advantages of using a value investing approach in the small and micro cap space? And are the inefficiencies enough to offset the heightened risk.
To be worth your while, they have to be that big, because there's more risk in these companies.
Could you give our listeners a general blue print for what you're looking for when you're allocating capital in the small to micro cap space.
In your experience, how long can some of these companies remain undervalued? What kind of time horizon do you have to have?
When you're evaluating these stocks, how do you discount the inherent risks? Some of the things that came to mind were that a lot of these companies have a lot less access to capital, less diversified revenue streams, larger competitors, and less than blue chip management. If you could elaborate.
So you're saying in the small to micro cap space, if you have the time and the ability to identify the huge inefficiencies that offsets the larger risk that you may only have a 30 million market cap or a 50 million market cap. Is that a way of understanding it?
You look for a really big discount and you have to figure you're going to be in the stock for a really long time. I'd say probably 1 out of five has been bought out by some private buyer or something. You don't just look to the market, you try to buy at a value that's less than you think, like a competitor or a buy-out can be a margin of safety.
Do you consider macro risk? Smaller companies will be more adversely affected by negative changes in the economy? Credit markets and long term stock market sentiment?
Can enterprising small cap value investors generate better returns than those who focus on the mid to large cap space over a long period of time.
That certainly makes sense. That's the answer I figured you would give us. Here's our signature questions Geoff: What's the worst investment decision you ever made? What's the best investment decision you ever made?
Geoff I want to thank you for coming out and talking to us. It's been very informative, very educational, and some of the ideas you have about the small and micro-cap space are very compelling. Thank you and I encourage all the listeners that want to find out more about Geoff and his thought process in investing in the small and micro-cap space to please visit gannononinvesting.com. So thanks again Geoff and I hope you have a great day.
Thank you.
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