From China, global trade, and the definition of value to inflation, commodities, and much more — Join Austin Willson and Michael O'Connor as they discuss long-term topics and trends, how they can affect your portfolio, and what you can do about it!

In this episode of The Long Run Show, we chat with Richard Chan, Chief Executive Officer, and Co-Founder at CoverRight about customized medical insurance.

"I got into Insurance specifically because that was a space that is about five or 10 years behind lending in terms of innovation."

"Medical Insurance was always kind of focused on the younger population assuming, they use technology more anyways, so we'll create solutions for them."

"There are 10,000 people retiring every single day."

"The statistic is there's going to be 20 million net new retirees over the next 10 or 15 years. And so it's a big population."

"Most of the industry that we're in doesn't believe that seniors can't use technology, which we fundamentally don't agree with"

"The problem that we saw was that the current experiences that are in the market really disempowered consumers, particularly Medicare. "

"What we sold was it's a very high anxiety decision for someone turning 65 for a lot of people"

"health and finance. as you get older, those two topics start to intertwine."

"And so on average, a person has over 60 options to choose. And our goal really is to build a, we call it a digital concierge model and sort of internally we call it TurboTax of Medicare, where it is sort of a concierge service where you can start online, get educated, be part of that decision and really empowering the consumer to own that healthcare decision that they're making, which is obviously important one as you get, get older."


Richard Chan



Hosted By:

Austin Willson

Michael O'Connor


Hey everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the Long Run Show. This is Michael O'Connor here with the lovely Austin Willson.

That's me the lovely Austin Willson

And here with our extra special guests today, we have our second guest-based episode. I am, I am loving this. I'm loving the conversations Austin.

Q: We are here with Richard Chan CEO and co-founder CoverRight. How are you doing today, Richard?

Richard: I'm well, and thanks so much for having me on the show. I'm excited.

Great to have you. I know that a lot of, a lot of the discussions we've had recently have centered around psychology have centered around a bunch of, kind of. Broad topics. And we just had an episode about insurance. So the timing seems to be perfect, to really pick your brain on CoverRight. Pick your brain on insurance as a whole, where you've been, where you're going. Uh, so I'd love to just start off with like, you know, who are you? What's your journey?

Richard: absolutely. So in case your audience is wondering, accent is from Australia. So grew up in Sydney, been in the states for the last five or six years. but started my career really on the financial services size and capital markets, and providing, advice to companies in the financial services and FinTech it tech and consumer sectors. I'd always been. You know, fascinated about how important the five natural services industry as a whole is to both the economy and in everyday lives. And I think- the issue is not everyone understands it well. And so I was really drawn to FinTech at my time, covering these financial services companies the ability for technology to help the broader population on items like personal finance.

And so in 2017, I actually left that career to join a company based out in San Francisco. That was actually tackling a very interesting problem. on the other side of the demographic spectrums, what I'm doing now in the student loan space which I found fascinating at the time you know, there's been this whole wave of student loan refinancing.

The company is is one of the first student loans refinance marketplaces at the time. It was, you know, you guys probably remember I know. And it was like just after the financial crisis and just prices were really low. Uh, and, but the federal rate for student lines was like high single-digit.

And so it didn't make sense. It was kind of a weird dislocation. And so that's how it goes. when FinTech that company ended up, selling a couple of years ago. And, you know, I wanted to dive in and do something else in, in sort of the personal finance space. And we looked around, insurance specifically because I think that's a space that, you know, it was about 5 or 10 years behind lending in terms of innovation. landed on, on, you know, CoverRight which is in the Medicare space. the same use demographic, primarily, as like a super interesting problem that, that, that really hasn't been solved yet. It's like the textbase is always kind of focused on like the younger population assuming, they use technology more anyways, so we'll create solutions for them.

So what was the, what was the impetus behind going after kind of the. kind of older demographic and making a solution that's FinTech based, obviously it has a tech solution to it. So it's going to, you're going to need to make sure that they're tech savvy enough.

Q: What was the, what was the impact?

Richard: I think a rapidly changing dynamic, in the way, people who are aging into 65 today, I in the digital savviness compared to those a decade ago, the demographics that are aging of 65 and English statistics and the 50% more of them had a college education. And then also the fact that one of them has spent the last 30 years within the workforce and have actually been part of this whole internet boom. And so it's really no longer the case in my eyes that people turning 65 are not digital savvy. I think everyone's got a smartphone from my own experience, on CoverRight. People are going through these experiences. I think there's a little bit of differentiation between the millennial generation, where there is sometimes still a. need for a concierge type service versus purely digital. And that's kind of what we cater for. but I think what we're seeing is a huge change in demographics.

There's 10,000 people retiring every single day. There's been no technology really to seniors at all. It's been a very overlooked part of the industry and frankly, most of the industry that we're in doesn't believe that seniors can use technology, which we just fundamentally don't agree with. Right. I had a little bit of background, in the kind of financial services space myself in a financial advising firm for about a year and a half.

And, and it was the case that, the underlying assumption was always the case. they don't want to use E forums. they don't want to use e-signature and free clients out, you know, and I think there probably is some truth to. Some of these advisors, you know, they had a 20 year old practice. So some of their clients would not be comfortable with that.

But I would say probably the newer ones definitely be comfortable with that. I mean, like you said that a lot of the folks that are retiring right now, I've been a part of this big boom in computing and the internet, and that they've been in the workforce during those, those kind of addition years. So they've been a part of that.

Q: So that's a good insight and probably a good, a bias to check. At least on my end, I would probably assume like the rest of your competitors in the space, you know? Oh yeah. Seniors. They might not, they might not like that. And I probably shouldn't even say seniors, that's probably insulting to some of your clientele.

So lead us through insurance. We were talking about this last time.. it seems antiquated a lot, especially when it comes to health insurance, life insurance. It's always very difficult. So what was, the idea we want to make this like a one-stop shop or is it more we want to kind of basically facilitate via technology and easier experience for Medicare?

Richard: it's a bit of both actually. And so the problem that we saw was that the current experiences that are in the market really disempowered consumers. And so the way health insurance, particularly Medicare. So there's either a field agent comes to your house, sits at your kitchen table, which obviously not happening as much the last 18 months.

typically that agent might only represent 1, 2, 3 plans. And so you never know if you're getting a full, comparison to the most. The second experience settings that is prevalent in the market is like tele sales. And, you know, I'm sure you can imagine, like how that goes. Then you say you see these ads on TV, you call in and kind of get sold a policy.

And it's never a great experience. What we want. What we sold was it's a very high anxiety decision for someone turning 65 for a lot of people. It's the first time you're sort of leading group insurance and having to pick your own individual insurance plan. There's a lot of red tape because there's public and private programs in Medicare.

And so on average that a person has over 60 options to choose. And our goal really is to build a, we call it a digital concierge model and sort of internally we call it sort of turbo tax and Medicare, where it is sort of a concierge service where you can start online, get educated, be part of that decision and really empowering the consumer to, to, uh, own that healthcare decision that they're making, which is obviously important one as you get, get older.

The best way to think of us as a digital concierge service, it is a one-stop shop. We help you understand, we educate you and we advise you on which, which plan is best to you. So this being the long run show, obviously you must believe in kind of the law. The long-term adoption of a more technology based model for selling, uh, Medicare insurance and specifically Medicare insurance in this case.

But you can speak to other insurances as well. have the background clearly in FinTech .

Q:So do you think that, what, what do you think, or I guess where you think we're at, uh, Sort of adoption phase. What are you seeing with your platform as far as you know, how many users versus, you know, market share out there?

I'm sure since it's a, it's a fairly new, you're still breaking in, but, but where do you see kind of the, the entire space going? I know we've seen robo-advisors in the last few years. Um, there's a lot of debate around whether those are going to replace or compliment regular financial advisors or financial planners.

Richard: We've seen into it with, with TurboTax. when it comes to insurance, what are we, what are we seeing as far as kind of where we're at in the adoption phase of the FinTech solutions there? There's always like a few different ways., insurance, you know, for, from our perspective at coverright, I, we obviously believe this next decade of people who are aging into this 65.year old phase of their lives is going to be much more digital. And our goal is to actually follow them through that process and continue to be a partner and have a conversation around health and finance. Because obviously as you get older, those two topics start to intertwine. I think taking a step back in terms of, you know, where insurance is, uh, we're starting to go through this first wave, which we saw in lending as well as, um, digitization of the distribution and the consumer experience, which is where coverage sits as well. It's already happened, you know, a little bit earlier within other types of insurance in auto, uh, in life through companies like PolicyGenius. Um, and it's, you know, Medicare for us, it's kinda like one of the last frontiers really, because no, one's really focused on the demographic.

I think where you go from there similar to other pots is, um, FinTech is the next wave of InsureTech will start coming from areas that are more behind the. Uh, more sort of infrastructure based, uh, improvements where there's, you know, interconnectivity issues at the moment or the inability to share information or underwrite quickly.

Q:I think that's where, you know, as we move over the next decade as well, you'll see this first site, which is tackling the consumer part and the second wave is really tackling infrastructure behind it. Gotcha. So it's almost like we got to build out the infrastructure now that it's like, okay. Proof of concept people like.

And insurance, I would have assumed that because it makes it way better. It makes it a far better experience. So then it's like, okay, we've, we've proved that the consumer likes it. Now, the, the companies are willing, or the investors with the capital are willing to, to put capital behind the solutions for the infrastructure side.

Richard: I think that's right. Cause the, the, you sort of solve the consumer issues. That's really what, a lot of cases, the first problem, uh, it's going to be a better consumer experience and you kind of, um, allow some of the accumulation on the backend of the process that you kind of take that away through a digital experience.

Q: That's nice. And then over time as a consumer drives what the experience needs to be, you start figuring out like, okay, we really do need to build some of this infrastructure to enable that to be a much better excuse. And that's, what's going to continue driving eventually. That makes sense. So another kind of tangentially connected question, cause, of course, this being the long run show, how do you guys see or position yourself or future changes?

Because, you know, you're, you're planning, you're going to have to be planning years and decades into the future. Future changes with, uh, when it comes to the political landscape. Medicare, because that plays into the insurance world a lot and different administrations, different political powers have different ideas of where to take that.

So how do you, I guess, almost hedge against the risk there, the political risk involved in the, in the space it's kind of almost baked in.

Richard: that's a, that's a good question. I think, I think for the listeners who don't know Medicare, just to cover that, that base is the federal program that basically provides health insurance when you're 65.

So whether you are taking it directly from the government or through like a private plan through United health care, that's kind of the general. Grouping of sort of these Medicare plans. there's, there's a few reasons for that. I don't think Medicare is going away and that's one thing. And secondly, I don't think Medicaid baggage is going away. private Medicare plans that are become. More popular. That is expected to increase about 70% and the reason for that is this strong bipartisan support works.

I think that only plays into our platform because there's more choice for. there's more players who want to increase in terms of the benefits that they're brand new consumer, like how they position themselves and more choice in my eyes is always better for the consumer. So I think that basically enables us to have add more value because you need more of navigation through that.

There's some other things that also are tail winds. You know, the current administration wants the Medicare to succeed, The digital savviness is everyone who's sort of going onto the platform. there's talk about, you know, adding routine dental, hearing and vision care into regular Medicare, which again, we think is better for the consumer and it will drive the private plans to innovate in more.

So they, a lot of these plans over the last few years, dental vision and hearing have been like a great. extra benefit that the provide that the default government program doesn't have. but if that becomes standard, then they really have to start innovating on other areas to provide better services to the consumer.

we get asked about Medicare for all. I think, I wouldn't say I'm qualified enough to talk about the fiscal budgeting issues around that, but obviously that, that would change the scene entirely. I don't think it's really going to happen.

That's kind of my, my sense on, the landscape. It's hard. And I don't think for a single-payer system, you know, you look at the, you look to the UK where they have an NHS system, and it's really just, you end up with a system where you get average health care for everyone, which is probably not necessarily solution.

Q: I think it's a great point on both. I like, because I like the question Austin , those political, it's such a unique spot that you guys are in. Um, because it's like, you know, there's almost a, kind of a classic idea. Have a working tandem with government of like defense contractors.

Some, this is, this is so different, but, but, so that's an interesting spot where, and I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like there hasn't really been innovation where you guys are in decades. I mean, is, is this kind of, I I've never heard of anything in the sector and I mean, I've got older family members who could use your as services.

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you guys are really the prime movers here. Yeah, it's definitely an industry that has, um, that hasn't had innovation. There's actually a few good reasons. Not good reasons. A few reasons. I think that that's that's happened. One is it's an actually a mandatory decision.

Uh, Medicare, when you turn 65, if you're not still working. Uh, and so what that allows is the, the incumbents basically go, well, they're going to have to make this decision anyway. And no matter how hard it is, they have to go through it and do it. So there's actually no impetus to actually innovate, uh, on that experience with they're going to come basically.

Richard: that's kind of exactly why we think, you know, building what we're doing right now is, is the right time. Like we think we consume. Mindset for that age group is, is changing rapidly. Um, and alongside this whole theme of consumerization in healthcare, um, you know, people want, they're only going to be looking for better experiences and they got to really vote with their wallets really over time in health care and in health insurance.

Q: Yeah, and I love the idea of bringing more choice architecture, um, because that's, I mean, I didn't even know that that was a mandatory decision. You just, you just forced to choose, make, make a decision. So that's having. Having that for the consumer is, seems just like a no brainer, but I mean, it makes sense that there's been constraints.

There's been less incentive to innovate. do you think that's kind of a, where insurance as a whole seems to be trending? Cause we've talked about, you know, we talked about specifically with Medicare, but I mean, Austin, like we talked about a couple episodes ago of insurance going more digital, more choice centric, consumer centric, seemingly

There's kind of these broad currents that are moving insurance in general, more than that direction.

Richard: Yeah. I definitely think choice is going to become a huge thing, particularly, uh, in health insurance in general. So the current dynamic in the health insurance market is the shift is there's a shift in the burden. the cost of healthcare that is moving towards the consumer. I think the statistic right now is like over 50% of people gain employee group plans are in high deductible health plans, which means consumers pay more, um, for their health care and. The healthcare system in the us has historically being one where there's been a lot of inertia because of The prevalence of group insurance.

And so what that, what group insurance does is the person who decides what you do with your health and the person who pays for what you do and the person who gets the benefit of 3g, different entity. The person who decides is typically your doctor, who, you know, you have to go to the doctor within that health networks choice.

The person who pays is the health insurer and the person who gets the care is the ultimate test is basically you. That's not the case in anything else that is consumer product. Those three are the same. And so as the burden shifts, you're going to see a healthcare move to a more direct to consumer model where people are going to start.

Like I said before, voting with. and we've already start starting to save. These people are circumventing the healthcare system going to health insurers like direct primary care models. One that one medical is like that, where you pay a subscription, just get access to primary care. And what I think is going to happen over time is, and I think, yeah, you guys actually mentioned this in your last episode, health insurance is going to shift to catastrophic coverage

And you're going to see employers going to provide more benefits, uh, that, uh, relate to these direct consumer, um, experiences. And it could be, you know, uh, and that's because, you know, people are going to want to be able to compare like how much the knee surgery from here from A versus B overtime, if they're gonna be paying for it.

whereas before, if you're not paying for anything. Th the insurances is working with your employer directly. Then you have, you have no say in where he's at to get that care. But I think I'm always going to stop start changing rapidly.

Q: It's really interesting. I've never heard the breakdown into those three categories of the person who decides what you do, the person who basically pays for it. And then the person who perceives the care. It's a three different. Um, and that's very different from even, even other, other insurances, right? Like auto insurance, you can shop around. You're the one paying the premium and you're the one also receiving the service. you're obviously not the.

Yeah, right, but you're, you're the, you're the person directly choosing right?

We're in healthcare. I think that's really, probably the only product that I've ever have. Where three different entities, all involved in that choice. What's driving the shift. What's the, what's the leverage point there. Uh, you mean as in the shift to, uh, the consumers or paying more or what's driving that, that shift in the burden you were talking about?

Richard: I mean, it's really, um, again, it's, it's the way the system is set up. So if you think about employers are trying to shift the cost more to employees, because the cost is. And then cost is going up because the person who is paying for it, um, uh, you know, the, the providers, basically, when you go, when you go to a doctor, they basically charged the insurer. The insurer doesn't want to pay. And so you have this perverse incentive where the provider will start pushing up the prices that they're quoting to, to the provider. So you have this negotiation in the background. And so there's this whole, uh, opaqueness around what healthcare costs are, which are drive overall dry. No, just healthcare costs in general. And so people are now going well, we can't really afford this. We have to push this into the consumer. And I think as that burden such shifting more to the consumer, then, you know, consumers, then that sort of alignment between the person who decides specific pays and benefits starts, you know, consolidating again. And that's where we will start seeing, you know, people again, like circumventing some of these, uh, insurance. Networks to go get care and direct primary care is a good example. There's like startups like RO and like these men's health, where people are paying out of pocket themselves. and I think an interesting thing that will happen over time is as, consumers take on more of the health burden health will actually become a bit of a financial asset to people, right? Because the healthier you are, the less you have to stand. And I think the services. Help you stay healthy. Uh, are going to be the ones that, that are going to win and what you're going to say. Like I said, particularly in over 65 insurance where we play is kind of slightly different, but I think under 65, I think you'll probably start seeing, and it's already happening because it's high deductible health plans, catastrophic coverage becoming where the health insurance play in. You know, I I'm, I'm from M&A capital markets, like a very well with this really plays out, you know, 10 years down the line. You could probably say some of these insurers acquiring these direct to consumer health services and really health insurance becomes an ancillary product at the back, the catastrophic coverage.

Q: Interesting. So over time, do you think we're going to see, as, as we see these kind of tectonic shifts in where, how everything aligns with health insurance, do you S do you think we're going to see that? Um, I guess maybe a better question is how are we going to see that chain when it comes to employer benefits? Is it gonna go like completely away from employers trying offer that. Fit and so much so that it's, you know, it's such a super biotic. Now we get very far away from group, you know, over the long run. Is that where we're headed? Um, or, or do you tend to see it as maybe a complimentary situation where the consumer has their own direct to consumer product plus some benefit from their employer? I would imagine there's some transition process in between, but yeah, the long-term and.

Richard: I think it's, it's, it's hard to say exactly because you know, I've done, it depends on how the incentives play out over time. But I do think, and I think it's already starting to happen. You're already starting to see employers provide these ancillary benefits that are not.

Typically like health insurance land and et cetera. And so I think one medical actually has a program within employees is, is, is an example. And so I think you might see employees because of the cost burden is increasing start to ask for some subsidization or some of these direct to consumer experiences.

And then that means the role of the health insurers starts to narrow as well. I think that's, that's probably the dynamic I think we'll start playing out over time. but you know, It's hard to say. It's like, it's, it's, there's a lot of moving parts in the healthcare system.

Q: One question I have kind of going off of these, you know, we're seeing these big changes in a lot of these large systems. What do you think generational differences has to play in that deep? Because one thing we're always talking about, you know, boomers versus millennials versus like, do you think that it seems like as we've seen, I mean, pensions are another kind of example, just talking about moving away from the employer on the consumer, is there a. Especially as we move through the generations closer to more of the digital generations. Do you think a lot of these trends will continue or kind of shift? Or do you think a generational differences is playing a part in this?

Richard: I definitely think generational differences. Um, do play a little. Into this because you know, you, and I I'll say more open to having these direct to consumer experiences. And, you know, as the, the, the generation that is growing up in these sort of high deductible health plan environments, like, yeah, like I do want better care, better quality. I don't want to have to go down to, you know, um, X plans specified doctor. I would rather. You know, like a one medical, I keep saying that name, but all these other direct primary care as well. I know I have access. Like I pay $100 a month. I'll have access to it. If I can get that subsidized by my employer in bed. And these services are proactive, like educating the healthy like there's using technology to talk to me. over time, like if, if this all works out correctly, You know, health care should move away from this model where there's this huge, basically these huge real estate companies, where you have to go to the hospital, the one centralized location we should be, you know, staying healthy monitoring our health outside of that whole system becomes much more. I think that's kind of, I think that's kind of where it said,

Q: yeah, that plays into something you just said, being more proactive with your, with your health. And I think that's something people probably over the last two years, of course, nobody wants me to say COVID, but I said it. Okay. But, um, as to, you know, two years, all this craziness has really put like your health and. And how you're treating your body and how you're prepared to fight off diseases or pandemics or any of that. It's put it into everyone's front of their minds. Right. Because it's just been there for everybody. Right. And so I wonder if the, the shift from healthcare being more kind of reactive, proactive, Well kind of, direct to consumer model where the consumer is looking to be more proactive and preventative with the care, because it seems like to me, whenever I've kind of looked through a health, health benefits at an employer. It's always been kind of more on the reactive side, right? Like, oh, you need care for this. Okay. Well, we'll get you care. You're broken. We'll fix you, but let's prevent you from getting broken. That'd be, that'd be a cool idea. Right? Obviously breaking an arm skiing. That's different, but let's, let's prevent you from getting sick. That seems to be like an afterthought in general, across healthcare at the moment. Um, so maybe that may be part of this is, is kind of spurred, who knows what, what long-term, you know, shifts we're going to see coming out of the pandemic and how people just following up on Austin's thought there. I love the Warren buffet quote. and I'll paraphrase a little bit, but that your, your own body is one of the most important assets has missed the most important asset. You have that to take care of it and to, uh, to keep it running fit and fiddle is, is so crucial. And I, yeah, I have to echo what you were bringing up, Austin.

It seems like a lot of healthcare is that, that reactionary mindset. Um, do you see that as a trend coming up that proactive? And are you seeing pushback? Because it feels like there's a lot of incentives for maybe, maybe I don't want to, I don't want to speak too, too, too harshly, but it seems like there's a lot of incentives for the big insurance companies and a lot of the legacy players to kind of keep things the way they are.

Richard: there's definitely, uh, incentives to do so, but you are seeing them starting to move in that direction. Uh, and I said earlier that I think, you know, there's some differences between under 65 and over 65, because I think, you know, over 65 they'll always be a Medicare program. But what you're seeing is that the Medicare advantage providers, which are these private plans are focusing a lot more on preventative benefits and they are competing a lot more as a plan themselves as a consumer product. Because they want people to select them and use them for, um, you know, also use them as their benefits provider and use their systems and things like that. And so, you know, there is like a whole,world of sort of health campaign or value based care that is starting to take its own sort of. Form and traction across the country. And people are focusing on it more because people assigned to realize that this old model of service, where it's really, you get paid for how many operations or surgeries you have in the, in the hospital, like doesn't benefit the consumer.

Q: Going off of that a little bit, you know, looking at the ecosystem that you guys are in right now, um, pushing that change forward, pushing, you know, for the productivity, what's the long run view for cover, right?

Like what do you guys kind of have in the pocket right now? And what are you excited to do in seeing the.

Richard: Yeah, we're really excited about, uh, one of the buildings, counties for product within the Medicare space, as a navigation platform, to help consumers through this difficult decision and high anxiety decision where we see a lot of opportunity is no one has really built a platform that follows through on this phase of people's lives, across personal finance.So Medicare is a very interesting conversation for us because one, we get to build a brand new relationship with a consumer because, you know, The positive for the 65 to, we have an interesting angle because we're talking about insurance. Uh, and what we see within the technology space is there are a lot of companies building in FinTech and health tech for this population.

And I think if we over time, what we're excited about can become this concierge. We just kind of where we started in Medicaid and help guide them through. Okay, these are some financial. Product of situations that we can help you with give you some advice or like, you know, even on the health side, Hey, these are some services preventive services that you should be using.

I think there's a really interesting conversation for us to have with that. Consumer has the agent to, uh, you know, this retirement phase of their lives. And that population is only growing. I think the statistic is there's going to be 20 million net new retirees over the next 10 or 15 years. And so it's a big population.

Q: That's crazy to think about. And to, I mean, globally, it seems like there's a lot of, uh, talk of aging populations, uh, around the world and kind of the need for better health coverages, insurance, you name it and it's, it's a, it's a growing long-term problem. It seems that needs, uh, needs smart people like you guys working on it and kind of to follow up on that a little bit. 'cause talking about the kind of the here and now, like how did you guys get to where you are now from the past? Like what, what did it look like? The journey from, I mean, a ground level to, you know, operating the way you guys are right now. It seems like a big leap. How did it, how was that journey?

Richard: Yeah, I think like, every startup founder will probably tell you it's it's like a. Eating gloss, sometimes trying stay up as a startup company. It's been a, there's a lot of twists and turns. Um, you know, at the end of the day, like we're a small company and we have to work with these big carriers that are in the space. And not only that there's insurance regulation, there's Medicare regulation.

And so there's a lot of navigating around regulatory pastry on the carrier piece. And then not only that we have to build the platform. Um, behind it. And one big difference that I think a lot of FinTech or insure-tech firms would tell you is that, and even health tech, like it's unlike, you know, e-commerce or these other consumer products, you can't deliver something that is broken.

Because you lose a lot of trust and everything in financial services is just about trust. And so it was a long, like a long we knew what I'd say. It's been, it's been an up and down journey. There's a lot we had to do, um, you know, the platform, you know, kind of, I think we currently take in about 23 million data points on benefits, available, , and.we got, uh, 12 carriers, uh, which represented about 20 brands across the country. And so, yeah, it's been fun, but it's a, it's been a hard journey as well.

Q: Definitely. I can imagine that one thing we always try to do in the show is we, uh, try to pull something, pull something out for the listeners of actionable tips or, uh, just kind of stuff.

So like what, what would you recommend for the average. The average listener, who is either interested in the healthcare sphere, what's going on, what you guys are doing, um, learning more, or, you know, if they're older getting involved or for like loved ones, what would you recommend this kind of action steps for, for anyone who's interested?

Richard: And obviously I want you to print out and promote ourselves too much, but you know, if you're turning 65, it is, uh, it's important to find a partner that can help you through that process. And obviously say, come to Um, I actually think there's an interesting, um, conversation in for those who are under 65 and maybe you're making a decision for your parents. Like you said earlier. There's a, there's a lot of people who helped with that decision. Um, I think, you know, if you're interested in, in healthcare in general, there's a lot of problems to be solved out there and a great place as a book. , I think it's called unhealthcare. Um, that is a great place to start it's by,a partner. I think who's at general catalyst who just said venture capital fund and they talk about where they see the world going. I think that would deliver a lot of inspiration. If anyone out there who's. Trying to figure out like where we've been, where we're going in terms of healthcare.

Q:Awesome, awesome, great resources and kind of, uh, just a final personal question that I had. Like, how did you, how did you get from Goldman Sachs? You know, the M&A all of the finance deep in the trenches to, to insurance, because it's such, it seems like such. A wild leap, but I mean, you know, like I said, it's financial services at the end of the day. It makes sense. But I'd love to just hear a little, a little backstory on that.I find that fascinating.

Richard: So, like I said, when I was at, in sort of in, in banking and M and a, I was covering financial services. So I did sort of have a more traditional view of, you know, banks and insurers. And I also, at that time, FinTech was starting to become hot. This is sort of early in 2012, 2013. So Pfizer was starting to come out and so. I just got really fascinated in FinTech in general. And to me, you know, whether it's companies like a buy now pay later companies that are really popular, whether it's infrastructure companies like plan, like I'm fascinated by all pots in tech. And I think, you know, I would say I actually, uh, came across Medicare just by accident.

Cause I was looking at insurance in general. I spent a lot of time. Uh, property and casual, a lot of time in commercial and, you know, coming from Australia, we don't, we don't have a program that's similar to this. And so I just thought this was a fascinating, um, a fascinating space. And then too, like I do think, you know, with 10,000 people retiring every day, there is the need for technology for this demographic.

And so someone wants, needs to go and build it. I think we have a really exciting, interesting conversation to have with people who are going through this retirement.

Q: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so so much, Richard. Uh, this has been a great episode, loved the conversation, loved to be able to deep dive a little more into health insurance.nSpecifically, we get to talk about insurance in general, but now hopefully for our listeners, they have a lot deeper understanding. please go check out all the things that Richard Chan is doing over at coverright.

Thank you so much for being on the show today.

And this has been The Long Run Show here with my co-host Austin Willson.

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